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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1532
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Posted - 2013.06.19 11:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Makes sense, I guess.
It'd be nice to have something like a ore hold, or a fitting service on the others, but it would be limiting for anyone but the gallente. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1534
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Posted - 2013.06.19 12:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Evelgrivion wrote:What's the reason for giving them such substantial baseline cargo capacities when compared to the present? Restricting the capacity of an industrial has obvious purpose in restricting player mobility, but I suppose that genie has been out of the bottle for some time now with Warp to Zero and Titan Bridges.
you mean the 4 that have had cargo increases? With 3 of those being fairly minor, only the Badger Mk 2 being substantial?
Or did you misread the numbers, which have a baseline, and then the fully fitted version.
Alphax45 wrote: Isn't 4,5,6 covered by the Orca?
Indeed. But I think it would be interesting to have single purpose ships that can do each one separately. It means the Orca has its place, but you can run something smaller and cheaper, in an appropriate situation. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1535
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Posted - 2013.06.19 14:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sofia Wolf wrote:Personaly I like idea of making superfluosu Mini and Gallente haulers specialised for specific cargo types, such as ice, minerals, gas, or allow them to provide specialised service such as fleet hangar or fitting. I would balance that by making general cargo ships for Matar and Gallente inferior to those of Caldary and Amarr. This way when one decides what industrial line to skill in to he would chose between access to specialised ships (Minmatar and Gallente line) or superior general cargo ships (Amarr and Caldari)
This seems reasonable, actually.
The skills are still useful, and reskilling to a different race is cheap and easy. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1537
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Posted - 2013.06.19 16:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Can we drop a lowslot from all of them and give them a hardwired damage control II? Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1537
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 19:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:Now, let me address the point about any "Unfair" or remarks about homogenization(sp?), the fact that you are changing the skillset for all of these ships to be accessible at industrial level I really invalidates any argument that one race can/can't have capabilities of another. By dropping the skills necessary down to such a low level, it should not be a concern anymore because the training for any ship in any of those races can be easily attained.
The argument is (valid or not):
Skill X unlocks 2 ships. Skill Y unlocks 5. Why do they cost the same? Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1537
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 20:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kurron wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote: The argument is (valid or not):
Skill X unlocks 2 ships. Skill Y unlocks 5. Why do they cost the same?
If three of those ships are useless, does it matter?
No ship should be useless though. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1537
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 20:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:
The argument is (valid or not):
Skill X unlocks 2 ships. Skill Y unlocks 5. Why do they cost the same?
The cost is time, and while there is a difference per se, the difference would be negliable. Oh, as a Gallente pilot you just need to train Gallente Industrials 1, where as a Minmatar pilot would have to train Gallente Frigate to III before going to Gallente Industrials I? the training difference would still be less than a day, plus it would give the Minmatar pilot the benefit of trying another race (which most will likely do anyways).
No frigate requirement any more :) That was removed in Odyssey.
I did say 'valid or not'. :) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1545
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Posted - 2013.06.20 15:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
I wrote a thing: http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/2013/06/20/t1-industrials-and-the-value-of-skills/
Short version:
Give Amarr and Caldari a best of breed Tanky hauler and a large hauler. Give Minmatar a less tanky one, a smaller large one, and a speedy one. Give Gallente the least tanky tanky one. The smallest large one. and 3 specialist ones. Ore, Hangar+refit, Gas.
Thus, all skills have their draw, and no ships are 'useless' Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1562
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Posted - 2013.06.22 15:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Utremi Fasolasi wrote: When was the last time anyone actually saw a Primae undocked? Exactly.
"Planetary Commodities Hold Capacity 1,000 m3" "Command Center Hold Capacity 2,000 m3" that's the reason the primae is never undocked, not because specialised holds are bad. most t1 industrials in their current state are bigger than those bays. when was the last time you saw an orca undock? see? specialised bays are fine, if they are of a size to be useful.
Exactly this.
People will use the most efficient hauler for them.
If they're ferrying things back and forth from an asteroid belt, for example, and the ore hold industrial is bigger than the general hauler, they'll use that. One of the reasons people commonly used twin Orcas in big mining operations. One to boost, one to haul. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1564
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Posted - 2013.06.22 22:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:Dave Stark wrote:when was the last time you saw an orca undock? see? specialised bays are fine, if they are of a size to be useful.
Orcas have a much higher skill point investment though than T1 haulers, and are much much much more expensive.
17 days to sit in an Orca with a full sized Ore bay.
26 days to sit in a fully skilled Itty 5. without the cargo bay boosts and rigs. (call it 27 days to get fully sized that way) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1564
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Posted - 2013.06.22 22:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
The earning I can't speak to. It's very dependant on who's earning it.
They're also pretty much the hardiest of industrial ships, with the right fitting. >200k ehp isn't hard to attain. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1573
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Posted - 2013.06.24 14:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Can we drop a lowslot from all of them and give them a hardwired damage control II? It's a core principle of EVE that people should be allowed to make bad choices.
I know, I know.
Sometimes I just wish we could force people to fit ships in a less than insane fashion though... Like the guy complaining about his mammoth with 1.2 billion in it being popped.
But you can't code round stupid. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1573
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 15:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Jowen Datloran wrote:Thank you for listening to the feedback, Rise. Much appreciated. CCP Rise wrote:
Special purpose bays - This will be for Hoarder, Iteron Mark II, III, and IV. We wanted to do this originally, but held back because of concerns about racial inequality. Based on feedback I'm now hoping you guys will be fine with this inequality, as long as it isn't so favored towards Gallente that no one would ever train another race for hauling.
This is as much an issue as people having to train Caldari ship skills if they want to fly a powerful ECM or missile boat. People keep saying this but it is simply not true. It would be if there was a counterpart for the other races. If you don't want to train missiles, its okay because you can train lasers. In this case, there is no option for Caldari or Amarr to counter balance, even if it was a different bay.
I've said it on my blog, but I'll stick it here too:
Give the Caldari and the Amarr the biggest general purpose bays, and the best of the other function.
Give the Minmatar the next biggest general purpose bay.
Give the Gallente the smallest general purpose bay, to make up for having the most flexible ship range.
My asbestos suit is ready for the flames. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1576
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote: I've said it on my blog, but I'll stick it here too:
Give the Caldari and the Amarr the biggest general purpose bays, and the best of the other function.
Give the Minmatar the next biggest general purpose bay.
Give the Gallente the smallest general purpose bay, to make up for having the most flexible ship range.
My asbestos suit is ready for the flames.
Really that would just be a penalty to the Gallente and to a lesser extent the Minmatar. To be honest I'd rather not be relegated to 5 mediocre industrial ships, all of which failing to compete directly with competitors just because a few now even more lackluster in-between's.
Is a ship with a 50,000 m3 ore bay mediocre?
The Gallente and Minmatar would pay for their better specialist ships by having worse general purpose ships. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1578
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote: I've said it on my blog, but I'll stick it here too:
http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/2013/06/20/t1-industrials-and-the-value-of-skills/
What I put here was the tl;dr version, assuming that anyone who was interested might look out the blog post. so I didn't clutter up the thread. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1581
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Posted - 2013.06.25 17:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Deirdre Anethoel wrote: Being flexible is useless in EVE. When you train for an industrial, you want to do something with it. Not just have a range of roles. So you'll train for the specialized one you need, not for the wide but bad category. People want efficiency.
You misunderstand.
The Gallente will have the widest range of /specialist/ ships.
Their most general ship won't be the best general one.
say, 30k general hold.
But they'll have specialist ships which have special purpose bays larger than the largest general purpose bay. Say, a 50+ k ore hold.
That is what I meant. (And it's covered in more detail in my blog, which I've already linked a couple of times.)
So, which ship would you train for? The large general purpose one (capping out at around 40k) Or the ability to have bigger specialist bays, but needing more ships in your hangar. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
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